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bugs&requests to yamaha forum!!!
midithru
#1 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2005 03:40
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After read the entire T2 manual, we get the picture of T2 internal structure. Lots of customers requested Yamaha for lots of new features for the incoming T-2 (sampler, audio tracks), and certainly are supossed to be incluided to get as result a complete and expensive music workstation. But are these new features designed on a useful a professional way? The answer is very sad after read T2 manual deeply. The manual is a mirror of the operating system: how we do and what can we do using the new T2 functions.

These functions are on the Operating System (OS), residing inside a cheap EPROM chip (maybe 5€ each?)!!! It is a cheap component for the Yamaha's factory that contains the most important part of the designers' work. This core will get the best or the worse of all the parts on our expensive tyros2 (the sampler, the HD audio recorder, etc) . This chip has the same price independently of the quality and features of the operating system that contains inside. Also the overall price T2 will be the same, but this operating system inside is decisive for what we get and how we do with T2.


Yamaha make us pay a lot of money for the components (hardware) we asked Yamaha to make of T2 a really powerful workstation: HD IDE connection, Audio recorder, sampler, USBs, memory ports, A/D-D/A conversors, etc, but we can not get a real workstation just because T2 operating system handles these professional and expensive components on a very basic way, getting less than the half of the total power of the keyboard. In exchangue we get some superarticulation voices and styles as real new improvement. It's time for us to ask YAMAHA an OS upgrade to get the power of the tools we're paying on T2. Remember that the chip that contains the OS is a really cheap component!!!!!

T2 HD audio recorder is really disgusting as we see on the manual. It's only a sketch-pad. Any Windows-based freeware audio-recorder is more functional than the one incluided on T2. On page 141 of Tyros-2 manual you can read on line 10: Keep in mind that the Hard Disk Recorder in this instrument is a simple stereo recorder. Shock How much power loosed!!!!

Another fact found on the manual.... The only way to play a WAV from the HD is something called 'playlist' (read pages 147-149), but is not possible to play an audio file from the Music Finder!!!!!

Also on page 149 says: Keep in mind that playback of files is not instantaneous. Since the Hard Disk Recorder needs to load each file before playin it, playback pauses roughly one or two seconds between files.. FunnyPfft! Yamaha should know it is not so expensive to program a cheap and simple algorhythm to provide the T2 with 'hard disk audio stream'. maybe 5 or 10kb of code???.

After read the entire manual, it's clear here there's NO chance to sync Audio Tracks with MIDI songs or Styles!!!! Tell me if I'm wrong, I want to be wrong..............Sad for a lot of professionals!
But I'm right when i say the T-2 hardware can do it!!!!! but the poor OS made by Yamaha's design team can not do it.

Even we can not listen an audio CD from a USB connected CDROM. Be sure you bring a mp3 player on your performances to play background music during your show pause. Later we'll review the sampler...

Are this problems hardware limits, or maybe OS programming limits???? you know the answer.

It is s a marketing trick to sell us unusable new features?, like the audio recorder, or the sampler, or audio/midi sync??? or maybe this is the result of an incompleted and poor work from yamaha designers??? We pay a lot for the new components and features on T2 but we can not use 100%. Why we want it? Let's open our eyes!

Not all is loosed, just let's force yamaha to update the T2 Operating system and finally we'll get the full power of this beast. We are paying for a complete music workstation, not only for some new superarticulation voices and some new styles, c'mon, let's get it!!!

Seriously, Tyros-2 needs these updates on the OS structure. I'm sure is possible to update the T2 like other expensive keyboards do, normaly flashing the EPROM chip.




=================================================

Now, we all can prepare a list of esential requests for Yamaha to be incluided on a possible (but necessary) OS update.

please don't ask for hardware updates, like 76 keys Sad, digital out, etc, just OS updates.





These are my simple OS update demands:


- On the SONG CREATOR, I didn't found a function to insert a 'play WAV/AUDIO TRACK' event on the EVENT LIST.
That should be something REALLY necesary
to sync Midi with Audio played from the HD, without load on the memory.



- Direct HD audio streaming on the sampler and wav player, to avoid innecesary load of RAM and get ultrafast sampler loading times.

Some people (me incluided) got a lot of AKai or GIGASAMPLER library that we use on live shows. There are some EXCELENT multilayer pianos that need 1 Gb or more. Direct streaming is really important.

Also with direct HD streaming sampling we can create a big instrument layering 61 songs (one WAV for each key) over the keyboard to synchro midi/wav with our old covered WAV songs and CD playbacks, this will be a chance to trigger audio/midi from the music finder!!!. Technicaly is impossible to load 61 songs of 3m:30s at 44.1khz on 1 Gb RAM, except using disk streaming.


- Velocity layering on the sampler. Not found on the manual. Yamaha: we are on year 2.005. My old 1988 Ensoniq EPS can do it. Again, how much it coast to reprogram this??? Just add some code lines and we have a decent sampler.
I hope to get a happy surprises after installing the new T2 sound editor on my PC...


- Any Akai import tool (maybe for PC/MAC??). Not found, maybe incluided on T2 CDROM???


- MP3 or audio-CD reading. (I dont know if this can be updated by OS). but very useful on our show breaks!!!!


- multitrack audio recorder .? Not found on the specs, but I realize this feature maybe requires a more deep OS changue. Maybe this one has to wait to T3, since surelly requieres some hardware changues..




Are these software updates so expensive or difficult for Yamaha's design team??? I don't think so! Yamaha must solve these gaps!!!


Any other requests for Tyros-2 OS1.1?
Edited by midithru on 20-02-2006 17:29
 
Liam
#2 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2005 09:47
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Someday, Yamaha wants to make a Tyros3... Seriously, this is never gonna happen in Tyros2.
 
bubbi
#3 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2005 12:35
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Midithru
Very good post from you. Of course it's good to have good sounding arranger but many of os use our keyboards on a pro basis and if Yamaha want´s us to be loyal to them, they need to let us have keyboard we can use on a pro level not just a toy to play with at home. There is a competition from Keytron, Roland and Korg.
 
cloydmello
#4 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2005 15:43
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yup i support u Dude
we need better stuff for the cash we pay
HOpe yamaha opens its ears and brainsAngry
 
Matt
#5 Print Post
Posted on 11-10-2005 17:51
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All os upgrades for Tyros 1 only corrected minor issues, for example letting you hold down a button to change data, rather than pressing it repeated.
I am not an electronics expept, but i don't think any radical changes can be made, unless circuits etc. are altered.Sad
 
TyrosII
#6 Print Post
Posted on 12-10-2005 12:59
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I believe the Audio-Midi Synchro/streaming/Mp3 player is possible via an OS Update

more than 1 stereo track recorder...! I don't see the benefit, since any simple PC can handle up to 16 audio tracks, though let's keep the Tyros2 hardware Power for the Live function needed (Mp3/Sync/streaming and other usefull functions)
 
midithru
#7 Print Post
Posted on 13-10-2005 13:44
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Yamaha design team is asking for our suggestions for Tyros-2 on their webpage

Let's send Yamaha our suggestions here:

https://www2.yamaha.co.jp/info/global/suggestions.php

(I can not make a url link since this adress is https , so please copy and paste the address)

Now you can ask Yamaha anything you wish for T2: 76 keys, digital outs, audio-midi sync, Akai conversor, mp3 player.

I'm sure Yamaha will open their eyes and let us to use 'hd audio streaming' and 'audio-midi synchro' finally on our live performances. Let's stop dreaming and make Yamaha to know what we REALLY need!

I also posted an invitation to Yamaha designers to enjoy this thread on T2.net
Edited by midithru on 13-10-2005 20:48
 
Kenneth
#8 Print Post
Posted on 13-10-2005 14:10
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Interesting thread, midithru.

I also have a request that I think would be possible to add by a OS upgrade.

I call it: "Play-song-finder" (I didn't know a better name Smile)

It's a feature to very easily find the stored settings for a song you are going to play. Let's say you have stored all settings to play the song "Tears in heaven". Then you just hit a "Play-song-finder-key" (in screen) and play a few of the first lead-melody-notes in the song. Then the keyboard find the stored setting for the song, and you are ready to play. You can just mute they volume if you do not want to play the notes loud. When storing the settings for a song you ofcourse have to play a few lead-melody-notes so the keyboard can use this as a "key" to call the settings back later, using this "play-song-finder" feature.

As I can see this would be very handy Smile

Hope you understand what I mean too Grin
Edited by Kenneth on 13-10-2005 20:12
 
www.kengun.com
midithru
#9 Print Post
Posted on 13-10-2005 20:00
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Kenneth, this is a really good idea!Wink Useful!!!!

I encorage Yamaha to hurry up to incorporate Kenneths feature on Tyros-2 OS v1.1 before Solton, Roland or Korg copyrights your idea. I wish Yamaha give you a free Tyros-2 for your idea!!!

Surely Yamaha will open its ears and listen what we need NOW! I'm sure they will not make us wait until Tyros-3 comes, will be to late for Yamaha.

Yamaha did major improvements of some of their products after listening some users suggestions, like the Motif ES, or the O1v96 v2.0 digital mixer, with a new OS and lot of new functions, fixes and improvements. Tyros-2 v.2.0, or OS1.1, will be true on some months!!!!
Edited by midithru on 14-10-2005 04:41
 
tomtomsf
#10 Print Post
Posted on 13-10-2005 20:26
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Hi midithru

I like your very thoughtful post. I also appreciate your link to the suggestions to Yamaha. I wonder if they would ever implement them? I sure hope so!

Thanks for taking the time to share this with us.

Tom G.

PS: You look very happy in your avatar. Wink
 
BennyBj
#11 Print Post
Posted on 15-10-2005 00:46
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I'm just a bit puzzeled that Yamaha is using PC133 RAM and USB1.1 while the world has been using the much cheeper and faster DDR RAM and USB2.0 for 'years'?????

It very much looks like the motherboard in the 'new' Tyros2 is very much identical to the one used in Tyros1. Speculations of course, but!
 
http://web.me.com/bennybj/Site/Welcome.html
midithru
#12 Print Post
Posted on 15-10-2005 03:06
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BennyBj wrote:
I'm just a bit puzzeled that Yamaha is using PC133 RAM and USB1.1 while the world has been using the much cheeper and faster DDR RAM and USB2.0 for 'years'?????

It very much looks like the motherboard in the 'new' Tyros2 is very much identical to the one used in Tyros1. Speculations of course, but!


Thanks for your info, BennyBj, after your words I can not understand Yamaha's slogan: 'Evolution always finds a way'. is this a japanish joke, or what is the sense of this slogan? . Do they think we are stupid? I can not stand this!!

Superarticulation voices sounds good on the demos, but the internal system improvements on T2 are far to be brilliant. Angry I don't want to think how slow will be to load 1Gb of audio data on our performances from an USB 1.1 interface.
 
midithru
#13 Print Post
Posted on 15-10-2005 19:35
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Here are Emmanuel's first impressions about T2 sampler:

the owner's manual refers to Wav and AIFF as only supported format. It is not clear if you can do multi velocity samples. You can have up to 8 waves spread on the keyboard (I guess it could be as an exemple 1 wav per octave). Actually I did not find this velicity parameter interval so far.
The "sampler" seems extremely basic.


So we got new suggestions for Yamaha OS1.1:

- Yamaha should increase the sample number limit of instruments from 8 samples to at least 128 or better 512 samples.

- Implementation of velocity multi layering to import Akai pianos.


After listening BennyBj comments we should als ask Yamaha's designers for this hardware modifications for a next hardware update, maybe on T3Sad): Please USB 2.0, DDR RAM slots, 76 keys

 
midithru
#14 Print Post
Posted on 16-10-2005 15:49
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Good news!!!! On the manual, I've found next information about T2 sampler:

Page 97:
The maximum number of Wave files that can be imported is 4,096 mono files or 2,048 stereo files. You can check the total number from the Property display (page 103).


page 103:
WAVE COUNT Total number of the wave files. A maximum of 4,096 mono files or 2,048 stereo files is available.
WAVEFORM COUNT
Total number of Waveforms. The term Waveform refers to a set of
wave assignment information. A maximum of 512 waveforms is available.


These are more reasonable numbers...

After read and undestand the PC voice editor manual, is possible to set up to 8 velocity layersPfftfor each custom voice!!!! GREAT!!!.Yamaha call the layers with the name 'elements' on the manual, and it's very clear each layer can contains much more than 8 waves Pfft.

So the sampler is better than we had expected!!!! Pfft

Anyway there is an absence of any Akai/Giga import tools.
Edited by midithru on 16-10-2005 15:53
 
Da Fletch
#15 Print Post
Posted on 16-10-2005 17:09
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Miditrue, what does that mean ? Can we import 3rd party samples or not ?

 
midithru
#16 Print Post
Posted on 16-10-2005 18:40
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Da Fletch wrote:
Miditrue, what does that mean ? Can we import 3rd party samples or not ?



Da Fletch, to import 3rd party samples to Tyros2 you should extract the separate wavs of an akai file with a freeware PC application called CDxtract , and then import each single wav to tyros. Then you must manually set all the parameter for each wav file: key assign, key range, velocity range, envelopes, filter envelopes, etc. Akai instruments have average between 5-50 wav samples, and a realistic Gigasampler instrument have more than 100 high quality hugue wavs, even with more parameters than T2 can handle to get suberb expression.

Extracting and importing wavs is not so difficult with CDxtract, but setting manually all the parameters for each sample to the relative values of T2 is a crazy work on highly multisampled files. If somebody has nothing better to do and feels emptiness in life, converting a whole Gigasampler CD should be a good way to keep somebody busy for some weeks .

All this long process will be not necesary when we have a PC Akai-Giga/Tyros conversor, that actually doesn't exist and maybe nobody has the courage to program. (maybe Yamaha programmers...)

I have access to a 200 Akai/giga/nki CDs library on the recording studio I'm part time working. If I get a Tyros-2 I'll try to convert manually some copyright free Akai instruments, and upload the result here for the enjoyement of my collegues at T2.net. But I can promise nothing.
Edited by midithru on 16-10-2005 20:54
 
Da Fletch
#17 Print Post
Posted on 16-10-2005 21:19
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Thanks Miditrue.

Another question. Do you know if it's possible to connect my Powerbook G4 via USB to the USB port of the TYROS ? I have garageband with some virtual instuments I would like to be able to play on the TYROS.
 
midithru
#18 Print Post
Posted on 16-10-2005 22:35
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Yes, of coarse, you can do it. You only need an ultralow latency audiocard on your Mac. But this could be a long off-topic conversation. This thread was only intended as a meeting point to request Yamaha some necesary OS improvements for Tyros-2.

You will find a lot of useful information on other forums, specialized on how to use VSTI virtual instruments on your live shows. (as I do every evening on my shows). Have a look on www.synthzone.comforums.

Ey folks!!! Any other suggestion to improve Tyros-2 OS????????? Let's hear your creativity.

Thanks
Edited by midithru on 16-10-2005 22:47
 
geras440
#19 Print Post
Posted on 17-10-2005 00:57
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hi, i only want to say, the criticals about tyros 2 it´svery good, specially, when this come in of midithru, so i hope, for this tyros 2 a new operating sistem, thanks
 
midithru
#20 Print Post
Posted on 11-11-2005 14:55
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Finally I got my Tyros-2. I got another request for Yamaha:

It would be useful to have a clock on the upper corner of the screen. It's useful to know the time on a performance, so we avoid to watch our clock on the middle of a session to know the right time to finish our performance. It doesn't looks professional an artist watching the clock.

Also useful for a home user, time goes so fast playing T2. Nobody will forget you have to pickup your children from school, or when your favourite TV program starts, etc.
 
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